[Scpg] [sbperm] Re: is ice plant a good edible permaculture plant?

Mon Sep 7 08:51:10 PDT 2009

Oops - I should have said "green roofs" not "green roots" in the last  
paragraph.

L

In a message dated 9/7/2009 8:48:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
LBUZZELL at aol.com writes:

Thanks, John, for your thoughts on this.  I'm hoping to get a little  
discussion going on this topic, as I wonder if some of our current thinking on  
invasive species and native plants might not be worth a second look from a  
permaculture point of view.  

With climate change, the range of our native species is already shifting  
and in our permaculture and garden designs we'll be needing to include 
species  that can perform many functions for us, including vigor and edibility.   
Here in our area, the native species would probably not feed the current  
population even if the climate were stable, so looking around for  
permaculture-friendly species is, I think, a worthwhile endeavor.  

Of course iceplant may not pass the tests of desirability, but so far  
apart from the idea that it might displace native species, I've not heard too  
many good arguments against it apart from criticisms of its taste.  My  own 
research found that one could make "delicious" jam from  its fruits  -- is 
this not true?  Also apparently some species of iceplant are more  tasty than 
others, so as with any edible plant, we'd need to select for  taste.

If iceplant isn't the succulent of choice (and in our increasingly dry  
climate we definitely can use some succulents for various purposes, including  
living, moisture-retaining mulch), can someone recommend another  succulent 
that is edible and easy to grow?

I was especially intrigued with the idea of using it for green roots  
because of its shallow roots.  If nothing else, it might offer excellent  
insulation, and on a roof it certainly isn't displacing native plants!

Thanks for the good discussion,

Linda

In a message dated 9/6/2009 2:30:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
johnvalenzuela at hotmail.com writes:

Linda,  your useful information and propositions concerning iceplant have 
really got  me going on a little rant here!

Iceplant is barely edible to me,  definitely not a 'good edible 
permaculture plant'. Our grandparents may have  found iceplant quite useful, but many 
of them were not aware of the value of  native plants in thier ethnobotanical 
and wildlife habitat functions, as  many of us are still not aware of today.

Wow! With all the useful,  uniquely native, and other relatively 
non-invasive plants to promote, are we  entertaining the idea of planting something 
that we all have all observed  spreading locally and creating huge 
monocultures, even taking over some  relatively stable native coastal plant 
communities? OK, it may be a very  interesting and useful plant, but it doesn't mean we 
have to plant it, to  use it- Don't we have enough of it to use already? 
>From my perspective,  planting iceplant would be a lazy choice. For others, do 
the cost/benefit  analysis and compare to other plant options (and 
combinations) to see what  your best choices might be.

from the website you linked to  
(http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantcd/carpobed.htm):
Conservation  status
Carpobrotus edulis is not regarded as threatened in its native  habitat, 
but it is invading natural areas in other parts of the world and  threatening 
the survival of other species. In California, where it has been  used since 
the early 1900s to stabilize the soil along railway tracks and  roadsides 
and as a garden ornamental, it has naturalized and is invading  coastal 
vegetation from north of Eureka to Rosarita Bay. It is known as the  highway ice 
plant in the USA. 

from another source:
There is  evidence that iceplant also competes indirectly with native 
species. It has  been reported that iceplant can lower soil pH and also affect 
the root  morphology of some native shrubs (D'Antonio, 1990a; D'Antonio and 
Mahall,  1991). It is also possible, because iceplant does not seem to be 
palatable  to most native herbivores, that its presence could increase browsing  
pressure on native flora and influence the species composition of  
herbivorous fauna. (3) Invasion by the alien succulent, C. edulis , has  become a 
common occurrence after fire in maritime chaparral

also see:  
(http://www.cal-ipc.org/ip/management/ipcw/pages/detailreport.cfm@usernumber
=25&surveynumber=182.php)

I  am definitely not suggesting that I only use natives in my plantings, 
but  come on! Let's be a little more creative than planting something that can 
 actually lower bio-diversity, like ice plant does! 

Now having gotten  all that out, Thank you for all the useful information 
on iceplant, as I am  actually quite interested in the many uses of locally 
invasive (well  adapted), or overly planted, seemingly useless landscape 
plants, (such as  Agapanthus, or the various shrubs known as Broom). Considering 
all the  qualities that were noted, perhaps it's economic values can be 
used as an  incentive to harvest and remove it, to fund replacement with a more 
diverse,  locally unique, and productive assembly of plants. If the plant 
selection  criteria is to have some fire resistant, good tasting fruit and 
medicinal  uses, how about some diversity plantings, starting with native 
prickly pear  and some Aloe spp., Agave spp., and so many others. . .?   Rather  
than more of the same old-monoculture, lets plan for more diversity and  
complexity of relationships!

be fruitful-
John  V.

Cornucopia Kitchen Gardens and Food Forests
John  Valenzuela Permaculture Services
Horticulturist, Consultant, Educator-  
California, Hawai'i  phone: (415) 246-8834 
e-mail:  johnvalenzuela at hotmail.com

____________________________________
From: LBUZZELL at aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:34:14 -0400
To:  Scpg at arashi.com; sbperm2006 at googlegroups.com; sbogc at yahoogroups.com;  
sbfoodfuture at googlegroups.com
Subject: [Scpg] is ice plant a good edible  permaculture plant?

Iceplant (Carpobrotus edulis aka Hottentot Fig) has a bad  reputation in 
California these days, although its usefulness was  much valued by our 
grandparents' generation.  It's an  attractive, low-growing groundcover plant now 
considered invasive and  governments are spending a lot of money ripping it 
out and replacing it  with native plants.

But perhaps from a permaculture point of view it's worth another look?  
It's an amazing plant that performs multiple useful functions. 
    *   Yields an edible fruit which has been eaten by humans  since 
archeological times. Fruit is fleshy, 35 mm in diameter, shaped  like a spinning 
top, on a winged stalk, becoming yellow and fragrant when  ripe. The outer 
wall of the fruit becomes yellowish, wrinkled and leathery  with age. The 
seeds are embedded in the sticky, sweet, jelly-like  mucilage. The fruits can be 
eaten fresh and they have a strong,  astringent, salty, sour taste. They 
are not as tasty as those of C.  acinaciformis (purple iceplant, can be used 
to make delicious  jam) and C. deliciosus (purple or pink iceplant) which are 
 sweeter. See _http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantcd/carpobed.htm_ 
(http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantcd/carpobed.htm)     
    *   Edible by some wildlife as well. Flowers draw bees  and are also 
eaten by animals. In S. Africa, leaves are eaten by  tortoises.  
    *   Holds water and thus is an effective fire-resistant  barrier around 
house or in foothills in fire-prone  areas.  
    *   Drought tolerant  
    *   A coastal plant  
    *   Low maintenance. Vigorous and will grow where  little else wants to 
grow  
    *   Wind resistant  
    *   Controls erosion by binding hillsides,  stabilizing sandy dunes.  
    *   Shallow-rooting so good for roof gardens  
    *   Like most succulents, a useful "living mulch"  groundcover.  
    *   "Can be planted on flat, sandy ground, on loose sand dunes, 
gravelly  gardens, lime-rich and brackish soils as well as in containers, 
rockeries,  embankments and will cascade over terrace walls."   
    *   Pretty yellow flowers and attractive rusty coloration  even when 
not in bloom (you can see its autumnal-toned beauty in many  paintings of 
coastal California scenes).  
    *   Has medicinal uses and is a first-aid plant. "The  leaf juice is 
astringent and mildly antiseptic. It is mixed with water and  swallowed to 
treat diarrhea, dysentery and stomach cramps, and is used as  a gargle to 
relieve laryngitis, sore throat and mouth infections. Chewing  a leaf tip and 
swallowing the juice is enough to ease a sore throat. Leaf  juice or a crushed 
leaf is a famous soothing cure for blue-bottle stings -  being a coastal 
plant it is luckily often on hand in times of such  emergencies. The leaf juice 
is used as a soothing lotion for burns,  bruises, scrapes, cuts, grazes and 
sunburn, ringworm, eczema, dermatitis,  sunburn, herpes, nappy rash, 
thrush, cold sores, cracked lips, chafing,  skin conditions and allergies...The 
leaf juice also relieves the itch from  mosquito, tick and spider bites both 
for people and their animal  companions. In the Eastern Cape of South africa 
it is also used  to treat diabetes and diptheria."
So what do you think?  It is worth another look?  Could this  be a useful 
plant for various garden and permaculture designs? Or should it  be shunned 
as uncontrollable?

Linda

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