[Scpg] -SBOrgGdn- Re: [sbperm] No pruning may offer best roses, fruit crops?

Sat Dec 27 16:56:09 PST 2008

You are describing classic, Fukuoka style of pruning -or- of not pruning.

Leave the central leader, minimal thinning cuts, no heading cuts -heading
cuts are good for hedges but not so great for fruit trees.

Check out the Fukuoka cult classics "one straw revolution" and "a natural
way of farming"

Viva Fukuoka!

Larry
L. Santoyo, Director
EarthFlow Design Works
www.earthflow.com

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:19 PM, <lbsaltzman at aol.com> wrote:

> We have been minimalist pruners of our fruit trees and can see no problems
> from underpruning. We basically prune dead wood and crossed branches,
> lightly top a few trees that we prune for size and do nothing else. We also
> am a minimalists on thinning the trees of too much fruit.  As long as their
> isn't so much fruit that a branch will break we let the tree self thin
> itself.  Combine that with dry farming the mature trees, and we get smaller
> but far tastier fruit than overwatered, oversize fruit from the market.
>
> Larry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: loren luyendyk <lorenluyendyk at hotmail.com>
> To: Owen Dell <odell at silcom.com>; SB Permaculture <
> sbperm2006 at googlegroups.com>
> Cc: Organic GardenCLub <sbogc at yahoogroups.com>;
> fossil-free-landscaping at googlegroups.com; scpg at arashi.com;
> crfgvsb at gmail.com; beardtropics at earthlink.net
> Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 2:44 pm
> Subject: RE: -SBOrgGdn- Re: [sbperm] No pruning may offer best roses, fruit
> crops?
>
>   I too suspected as much.  I have noticed that (most) pruned fruit trees
> produce far less fruit than their unpruned counterparts.  They are also
> exposed to disease at the cut.  The only advantages I see to pruning are for
> increased fruit size (less fruit means bigger individual fruits, but overall
> less weight per tree) and the obvious like crossing limbs or to keep the
> tree small.
>
> My mom never prunes her roses and they are the healthiest plants I have
> seen.  She gets flowers all year in Ojai (still blooming).
>
> In my opinion, the most common mistake in pruning (besides pruning too
> much) is timing.  The time of year is very important in how the plant will
> respond to the pruning.  We have all seen a tree send out a million shoots
> at the spot it was pruned.  I think this is because it was pruned at the
> wrong time.
>
> Loren Luyendyk
> (805) 452-8249
> www.sborganics.com
> www.surferswithoutborders.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> CC: sbogc at yahoogroups.com; Fossil-Free-Landscaping at googlegroups.com;
> Scpg at arashi.com; crfgvsb at gmail.com; Beardtropics at earthlink.net
> To: sbperm2006 at googlegroups.com
> From: odell at silcom.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:44:55 -0800
> Subject: -SBOrgGdn- Re: [sbperm] No pruning may offer best roses, fruit
> crops?
>
>  Excellent news! I suspected as much. There's another study that
> proved that unpruned trees (natives and ornamentals, not fruit trees)
> do better in winds because the leaves and branchlets absorb the
> energy of the wind. Traditio nally pruned ornamental trees, thinned to
> "take the sail out," had problems with loss of major limbs and
> overturning, whereas the same kinds of trees growing in a natural
> unpruned state did not.
>
> What makes us think we can outsmart millions of years of slow, steady
> evolution towards the optimal forms of organisms? Seems to me that
> it's a product of the human need to control everything, not backed up
> by good science. Much of conventional horticulture is of a similar
> origin, and is similarly unsupported by any scientific evidence. I
> applaud any effort to learn what really is going on, and to better
> understand our role in the care of our plants and garden ecosystems.
> I suspect that we have much to learn.
>
> Pruning to control size is a similarly dubious idea, made necessary
> by placement of a plant in a space not adequate for its ultimate
> size. Under normal circumstances, the only pruning that really makes
> sense (off the top of my head) is 1.) removing crossing, damaged,
> weak or otherwise truly troublesome branches, 2.) minor corrections
> to young trees in order to develop a good branching structure, and
> 3.) safety pruning to remove branches that might become a hazard.
> Pruning should be done from the inside, not from outside. There are
> exceptions to this information, of course, such as espaliered trees,
> sheared hedges (only where there is no other solution to the problem
> of screening), and per haps controlling the size of fruit trees where
> we intentionally have placed them in too small a space on the
> principle that it's better to do so and enjoy the fruit that to have
> nothing simply because our land isn't big enough to accommodate fully-
> developed trees.
>
> I love to prune and it's hard not to dive in and clean up a badly
> structured plant. I'm as much of a control freak as any gardener (we
> really do love to play God, don't we?), and I work to control my own
> instincts in this regard. I note that there is a call for volunteers
> to prune the roses at the Mission; I wonder what would happen if this
> information were made available to them? It's really hard to tell
> people that everything they know is wrong, but sometimes it's the
> best thing in the long run.
>
> Owen
>
> On Dec 24, 2008, at 9:46 AM, LBUZZELL at aol.com wrote:
>
> > Before you do any winter pruning, please read this article!
> >
> > Gregg Lowery of Vintage Gardens in Sebastopol, CA has written a
> > very important article about the scientific evidence that now
> > contradicts traditional procedures for rose pruning. This article
> > may also have relevance for how we prune fruit trees, since roses
> > are members of the rosaceae family which includes many fruit trees.
> >
> > In short, the British rose society did experimental trials on three
> > methods: traditiona l pruning, trimming with hedge trimmers and no
> > pruning at all. The winner in terms of health and bloom was -- you
> > guessed it -- no pruning at all. The British rosarians were in an
> > uproar!!! How could it be possible that the plants know better
> > than people how to do their job?
> > \
> > We may still choose to prune for size, of course -- but we need to
> > know that we're not helping the health of the plant by doing so,
> > and a gentle hand is needed.
> >
> > http://www.vintagegardens.com/PDF/Vintage%20Newsletter%2012_19_08.pdf
> >
> > Happy holidays,
> > Linda
> >
> >
> >
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