[Scpg] steep permaculture slope ideas?

Mon Sep 6 12:01:26 PDT 2010

Perhaps I can bring this to a close by saying that permaculture is 
applied to do what is appropriate, not to force an idea.  "The problem 
is the solution" – the conditions and inputs will determine the 
possibilities.  Herein lies the beauty of permaculture as a way of 
looking at things holistically, and without attachment to preconceived 
ideas or outcomes.  But Owen's point is well taken – i.e. to have an 
understanding of what's going on with the mechanics of a slope, which 
involves soil, geology, and hydrology.

I trust that Kevin is very capable of making a good decision.

JC

Owen Dell wrote:
> Gee, people! Why are you so threatened by facts? Shoot the messenger? 
> Come on! You just don't want to hear the truth. Slope failure, as I 
> said in my previous email is NOT covered by insurance. Ask your agent. 
> If your "experiential life" includes bankruptcy and a multi-million 
> dollar lawsuit because your property fell onto your neighbor's house, 
> maybe killing someone, then how are you going to feel? I've been an 
> expert witness on cases of this kind. I really hate to ramp up the 
> conflict here, but I just have got to tell you that you are living in 
> a dream world if you think that it's no big deal to put public safety 
> and the environment at risk because of some notion that it would be 
> cool to transform a steep slope into a permaculture planting. Nice 
> idea, but first you have to be sure you're not committing a massive 
> and irretrievable error in judgment. I love permaculture and I love 
> producing food, but I also love doing things right and staying out of 
> trouble. Don't live in a dream world. Your actions have significant 
> impacts on others. Find out what you're doing before you do it. 
> Messing with land isn't a game. It's serious business, and safety is 
> ALWAYS an overriding concern.
>
> Owen
>
> Owen E. Dell, ASLA
> Owen Dell & Associates
> Landscape Architect • Educator • Author
> P.O. Box 30433 • Santa Barbara, CA 93130
> 805 962-3253
> owen at owendell.com
> www.owendell.com
>
>
> QUOTE OF THE DAY
>
> “Skill in landscape design is shown in the ability to 'follow' and
> 'borrow from' the existing scenery and lie of the land, and artistry
> is shown in the feeling of suitability created. This is…beyond the
> powers of mere workmen, as well as beyond the control of the
> landowner. The owner must obtain the services of the right person,
> and not throw his money away.”
>        
>         Ji Cheng, “The Craft of Gardens”
>         1631 a.d.
>
> On Sep 6, 2010, at 11:03 AM, lfunkhouser at juno.com wrote:
>
>> Yes! I believe vetiver grass is it. Thank you Vinay.
>>
>> With all due respect to Owen, please don't shoot the messenger. I was 
>> trying to put Kevin in touch with someone who has a challenging slope 
>> and has done a lot of research and has had years of results and 
>> tinkering with the regime. Just passing along contacts and 
>> information here.
>>
>> Yes, you can't beat professional advice and experience, but there are 
>> new things to be discovered if one wants to live an experiential life 
>> and has really good insurance, and where safety is not an overriding 
>> concern. Some people like the process of discovery as much as the 
>> goal. I'll leave it at that.
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Vinay Jathanna <vjathanna at gmail.com>
>> To: "lfunkhouser at juno.com" <lfunkhouser at juno.com>
>> Cc: kevin at kevingleasonart.com
>> Subject: Re: [Scpg] steep permaculture slope ideas?
>> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 10:55:15 -0700
>>
>> Hi Laura and Kevin,
>>
>> It is Vetiver Grass. Doug Richardson, in Santa Barbara is doing a lot 
>> of work with vetiver grass. It is a grass that comes from the Indian 
>> subcontinent. It is very benign and has multiple uses as a 
>> Permaculture plant.
>>
>> http://vetivernetinternational.blogspot.com/2008/06/vetiver-system-applications-in.html 
>>
>> http://www.vetiver.org/
>>
>> Vinay
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:08 AM, lfunkhouser at juno.com 
>> <lfunkhouser at juno.com> wrote:
>> Kevin,
>>
>> You might also want to talk to Mary Scaran, who is an acupuncturist 
>> in SB (she's in the phone book) and has a very steep slope running 
>> the entire length of her oak wooded and desert upland property that 
>> is permeated by a spring. She has planted lots of things to 
>> stabilize, including Persian mulberry trees (edible!) and some kind 
>> of grass -- can't remember which -- but a type of bunch grass that 
>> she selected for its very specific properties of soil stabilization. 
>> Mary practices permaculture, studies horticulture, and is a very fine 
>> acupuncturist.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> --Laura
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: Kevin Gleason <kevin at kevingleasonart.com>
>> To: John Calvert <jcalvert at crystal3.com>
>> Cc: scpg at arashi.com
>> Subject: Re: [Scpg] steep permaculture slope ideas?
>> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 07:14:15 -0700
>>
>> Thanks, John, and all others who have replied. �This is such a helpful �
>> community. �I am going to look into the "net and pan" technique Susan �
>> recommended and am trying to find some good "pinning" shrubs and trees �
>> per Dan's advice. �I need to pay good attention to the plants that �
>> seem to be holding up west facing slopes next time I'm out hiking. �It �
>> is okay with me if this really steep section doesn't grow food.... �
>> Maybe I'll just grow food for the birds there.
>> I appreciate eveyone's help.
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 9:22 PM, John Calvert wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I started out writing a response to this, looking in the direction �
>> > of what grows native on our steep coastal mountain canyons.
>> >
>> > But I realize that there isn't much edible on the really steep �
>> > slopes. �It seems the more fruit-bearing types are more likely to �
>> > appear where there's better soil and moisture.
>> >
>> > So, that leaves the plants that do well in poor soil and least �
>> > moisture...
>> >
>> > nopal cactus, various wild sages, maybe fit in a hollyleaf cherry, �
>> > chia ?, maybe some kind of mulberry, wild golden currant (?).
>> >
>> > so, mostly natives, and then some select fruit-bearing plantings w/ �
>> > drip irrigation. �?
>> >
>> > JC
>> >
>> >
>> > Kevin Gleason wrote:
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I was wondering if anyone has good advice for creating a garden on �
>> >> a VERY steep slope (more than 45 degrees.) �I'd love some feedback �
>> >> on alternative terracing methods, whether this is too steep for �
>> >> small swales, good soil-holding, drought-tolerant �ground covers �
>> >> and other plants that would be useful and other ideas. �I remember �
>> >> hearing Brock Dolman talking about making retaining walls with �
>> >> burlap tubes filled with soil and a little cement. �Anybody tried it?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for your help!
>> >> Kevin
>> >> _______________________________________________
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