[Scpg] steep permaculture slope ideas?
Owen Dell
owen at owendell.com
Mon Sep 6 10:40:30 PDT 2010
I'm not the landscape police. That's actually pretty insulting to me.
I'm trying to keep somebody's ass out of trouble. There's a lot of bad
information circulating here, and I really cringe when I read some of
this stuff. I work in this field as a professional and I've seen
plenty of disasters. If you don't like my opinion, prove me wrong. But
hey, as to community discussion, if that excludes professional
training and experience, then what do you mean by community? But you
know what, I've had my say. If this person ends up with a million
dollar landslide on their hands, well, don't say I didn't warn
everybody. I'm outta here.
Owen
Owen E. Dell, ASLA
Owen Dell & Associates
Landscape Architect • Educator • Author
P.O. Box 30433 • Santa Barbara, CA 93130
805 962-3253
owen at owendell.com
www.owendell.com
QUOTE OF THE DAY
"Don't make me come down there."
God
On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:34 AM, John Calvert wrote:
>
> yeah, don't cover the slope with grass. duh!
>
> Owen, you sound like the landscape police. This is a community
> discussion.
>
> JC
>
>
> Owen Dell wrote:
>>
>> Grass is a very poor way to protect slopes against erosion. The
>> large number of stem penetrations results in a very effective
>> transmission of water into the soil, which can lead to
>> supersaturation and slope failure. No offense to anyone, but I
>> recommend that people not speculate about what is going to work.
>> There are accepted standards for this kind of activity.
>> Permaculture is a great thing, but it doesn't always address real-
>> world issues and it isn't always right. Slope failures can cost
>> hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix, and the cost is not
>> covered by insurance. I say again, PLEASE consult a professional
>> before you go off implementing half-cocked ideas.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> Owen E. Dell, ASLA
>> Owen Dell & Associates
>> Landscape Architect • Educator • Author
>> P.O. Box 30433 • Santa Barbara, CA 93130
>> 805 962-3253
>> owen at owendell.com
>> www.owendell.com
>>
>>
>> QUOTE OF THE DAY
>>
>> "You take a number of small steps which you believe are right,
>> thinking maybe tomorrow somebody will treat this as a dangerous
>> provocation. And then you wait. If there is no reaction, you take
>> another step: courage is only an accumulation of small steps."
>> George Konrad
>> Hungarian novelist & essayist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:23 AM, John Calvert wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I was gonna say grass... the bunch grass sounds like a very good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> lfunkhouser at juno.com wrote:
>>>> Kevin,
>>>>
>>>> You might also want to talk to Mary Scaran, who is an
>>>> acupuncturist in SB (she's in the phone book) and has a very
>>>> steep slope running the entire length of her oak wooded and
>>>> desert upland property that is permeated by a spring. She has
>>>> planted lots of things to stabilize, including Persian mulberry
>>>> trees (edible!) and some kind of grass -- can't remember which --
>>>> but a type of bunch grass that she selected for its very specific
>>>> properties of soil stabilization. Mary practices permaculture,
>>>> studies horticulture, and is a very fine acupuncturist.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>> --Laura
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>>>> From: Kevin Gleason <kevin at kevingleasonart.com>
>>>> To: John Calvert <jcalvert at crystal3.com>
>>>> Cc: scpg at arashi.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Scpg] steep permaculture slope ideas?
>>>> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 07:14:15 -0700
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, John, and all others who have replied. This is such a
>>>> helpful community. I am going to look into the "net and pan"
>>>> technique Susan recommended and am trying to find some good
>>>> "pinning" shrubs and trees per Dan's advice. I need to pay good
>>>> attention to the plants that seem to be holding up west facing
>>>> slopes next time I'm out hiking. It is okay with me if this
>>>> really steep section doesn't grow food.... Maybe I'll just grow
>>>> food for the birds there.
>>>> I appreciate eveyone's help.
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 5, 2010, at 9:22 PM, John Calvert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I started out writing a response to this, looking in the
>>>> direction > of what grows native on our steep coastal mountain
>>>> canyons.
>>>> >
>>>> > But I realize that there isn't much edible on the really steep
>>>> > slopes. It seems the more fruit-bearing types are more likely
>>>> to > appear where there's better soil and moisture.
>>>> >
>>>> > So, that leaves the plants that do well in poor soil and least
>>>> > moisture...
>>>> >
>>>> > nopal cactus, various wild sages, maybe fit in a hollyleaf
>>>> cherry, > chia ?, maybe some kind of mulberry, wild golden
>>>> currant (?).
>>>> >
>>>> > so, mostly natives, and then some select fruit-bearing
>>>> plantings w/ > drip irrigation. ?
>>>> >
>>>> > JC
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Kevin Gleason wrote:
>>>> >> Hi all,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I was wondering if anyone has good advice for creating a
>>>> garden on >> a VERY steep slope (more than 45 degrees.) I'd
>>>> love some feedback >> on alternative terracing methods, whether
>>>> this is too steep for >> small swales, good soil-holding,
>>>> drought-tolerant ground covers >> and other plants that would
>>>> be useful and other ideas. I remember >> hearing Brock Dolman
>>>> talking about making retaining walls with >> burlap tubes filled
>>>> with soil and a little cement. Anybody tried it?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks for your help!
>>>> >> Kevin
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> Scpg at arashi.com
>>>> >> https://www.arashi.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/scpg
>>>> >>
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>>
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