[Scpg] -SBOrgGdn- Re: is ice plant a good edible permaculture plant?
LBUZZELL at aol.com
LBUZZELL at aol.com
Tue Sep 8 08:04:59 PDT 2009
Thanks Marshall, Loren and John -- good discussion and helps me think this
through in a permaculture way, weighing the plant's pros and cons...
One question: I wasn't clear if the taste comments were about the actual
fruit of the iceplant? Has anyone tasted it as jam as the Australians
recommend? I know that we have fruit in our garden (quince, for example) that
tastes terrible raw but is delicious cooked or as part of a cooked fruit
sauce.
I hadn't really taken the prickly pear seriously as a food crop until a
garden club member from the Middle East introduced us to the delicious fruit
(tunas) and properly-prepared young pads. This is another plant many
consider a pest on California hillsides. We got a pad of Luther Burbank's
thornless cultivar up at his historical homestead in Santa Rosa, and wonder if
this could be a great local food source.
Linda
In a message dated 9/7/2009 11:09:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
lorenluyendyk at hotmail.com writes:
I see both sides of this argument. I would say ice plant is a good
"armageddon plant", one that we could resort to eating when/if all else fails...
I have not taken the time to prepare Ice plant, but I have tasted it raw
and my intuition is probly not too tasty.
I too would discourage planting any more unless it was used as a colonizer
on loose soils, where it can be easily removed and used to build soil and
terraces. I have done this over the last 10 years at my Dad's house,
removing an acre of the stuff... The drawbacks is that the seeds can last a
while and the plant harbors snails, lots of em (guess we could eat those too?)
It would be a good roof plant, since it grows so fast. Bees love it too.
Alternatively, there are natives that may perform similar functions, like
california fuschia or purple nightshade.
Loren Luyendyk
(805) 452-8249
_www.sborganics.www_ (http://www.sborganics.com/)
_www.surferswithoutbwww.surfer_ (http://www.surferswithoutborders.org/)
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To: johnvalenzuela@ To: johnvalenzuela@ To: johnvalenzuela@<WBR> To:
johnvalenzuela@<WBR> To: johnvalenzuela To: johnv
From: LBUZZELL at aol.Fro
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 11:47:53 -0400
Subject: -SBOrgGdn- Re: [Scpg] is ice plant a good edible permaculture
plant?
Thanks, John, for your thoughts on this. I'm hoping to get a little
discussion going on this topic, as I wonder if some of our current thinking on
invasive species and native plants might not be worth a second look from a
permaculture point of view.
With climate change, the range of our native species is already shifting
and in our permaculture and garden designs we'll be needing to include
species that can perform many functions for us, including vigor and edibility.
Here in our area, the native species would probably not feed the current
population even if the climate were stable, so looking around for
permaculture- Here in our area, the native species would probably
Of course iceplant may not pass the tests of desirability, but so far
apart from the idea that it might displace native species, I've not heard too
many good arguments against it apart from criticisms of its taste. My own
research found that one could make "delicious" jam from its fruits -- is
this not true? Also apparently some species of iceplant are more tasty than
others, so as with any edible plant, we'd need to select for taste.
If iceplant isn't the succulent of choice (and in our increasingly dry
climate we definitely can use some succulents for various purposes, including
living, moisture-retaining mulch), can someone recommend another succulent
that is edible and easy to grow?
I was especially intrigued with the idea of using it for green roots
because of its shallow roots. If nothing else, it might offer excellent
insulation, and on a roof it certainly isn't displacing native plants!
Thanks for the good discussion,
Linda
In a message dated 9/6/2009 2:30:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
johnvalenzuela at In a message dated
Linda, your useful information and propositions concerning iceplant have
really got me going on a little rant here!
Iceplant is barely edible to me, definitely not a 'good edible
permaculture plant'. Our grandparents may have found iceplant quite useful, but many
of them were not aware of the value of native plants in thier ethnobotanical
and wildlife habitat functions, as many of us are still not aware of today.
Wow! With all the useful, uniquely native, and other relatively
non-invasive plants to promote, are we entertaining the idea of planting something
that we all have all observed spreading locally and creating huge
monocultures, even taking over some relatively stable native coastal plant
communities? OK, it may be a very interesting and useful plant, but it doesn't mean we
have to plant it, to use it- Don't we have enough of it to use already?
>From my perspective, planting iceplant would be a lazy choice. For others, do
the cost/benefit analysis and compare to other plant options (and
combinations) to see what your best choices might be.
from the website you linked to (http://www.from the websfrom the webfrom
the from
Conservation status
Carpobrotus edulis is not regarded as threatened in its native habitat,
but it is invading natural areas in other parts of the world and threatening
the survival of other species. In California, where it has been used since
the early 1900s to stabilize the soil along railway tracks and roadsides
and as a garden ornamental, it has naturalized and is invading coastal
vegetation from north of Eureka to Rosarita Bay. It is known as the highway ice
plant in the USA.
from another source:
There is evidence that iceplant also competes indirectly with native
species. It has been reported that iceplant can lower soil pH and also affect
the root morphology of some native shrubs (D'Antonio, 1990a; D'Antonio and
Mahall, 1991). It is also possible, because iceplant does not seem to be
palatable to most native herbivores, that its presence could increase browsing
pressure on native flora and influence the species composition of
herbivorous fauna. (3) Invasion by the alien succulent, C. edulis , has become a
common occurrence after fire in maritime chaparral
also see:
(http://www.(http://www.(http://www.<W(http://www(http://www.(http://www.<WB
(h&surveynumber=surveynu
I am definitely not suggesting that I only use natives in my plantings,
but come on! Let's be a little more creative than planting something that can
actually lower bio-diversity, like ice plant does!
Now having gotten all that out, Thank you for all the useful information
on iceplant, as I am actually quite interested in the many uses of locally
invasive (well adapted), or overly planted, seemingly useless landscape
plants, (such as Agapanthus, or the various shrubs known as Broom). Considering
all the qualities that were noted, perhaps it's economic values can be
used as an incentive to harvest and remove it, to fund replacement with a more
diverse, locally unique, and productive assembly of plants. If the plant
selection criteria is to have some fire resistant, good tasting fruit and
medicinal uses, how about some diversity plantings, starting with native
prickly pear and some Aloe spp., Agave spp., and so many others. . .? Rather
than more of the same old-monoculture, lets plan for more diversity and
complexity of relationships!
be fruitful-
John V.
Cornucopia Kitchen Gardens and Food Forests
John Valenzuela Permaculture Services
Horticulturist, Consultant, Educator-
California, Hawai'i phone: (415) 246-8834
e-mail: johnvalenzuela at e-mail:
____________________________________
From: LBUZZELL at aol.Fro
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:34:14 -0400
To: Scpg at arashi.To: Scpg at arashi.<WTo: Scpg at arashi.<WBR>com; sbTo:
Scpg at arashi.<WTo: ScpTo:
Subject: [Scpg] is ice plant a good edible permaculture plant?
Iceplant (Carpobrotus edulis aka Hottentot Fig) has a bad reputation in
California these days, although its usefulness was much valued by our
grandparents' generation. It's an attractive, low-growing groundcover plant now
considered invasive and governments are spending a lot of money ripping it
out and replacing it with native plants.
But perhaps from a permaculture point of view it's worth another look?
It's an amazing plant that performs multiple useful functions.
* Yields an edible fruit which has been eaten by humans since
archeological times. Fruit is fleshy, 35 mm in diameter, shaped like a spinning
top, on a winged stalk, becoming yellow and fragrant when ripe. The outer
wall of the fruit becomes yellowish, wrinkled and leathery with age. The
seeds are embedded in the sticky, sweet, jelly-like mucilage. The fruits can be
eaten fresh and they have a strong, astringent, salty, sour taste. They
are not as tasty as those of C. acinaciformis (purple iceplant, can be used
to make delicious jam) and C. deliciosus (purple or pink iceplant) which are
sweeter. See _http://www.plantzafhttp://wwhttp://www.planthttp_
(http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantcd/carpobed.htm)
* Edible by some wildlife as well. Flowers draw bees and are also
eaten by animals. In S. Africa, leaves are eaten by tortoises.
* Holds water and thus is an effective fire-resistant barrier around
house or in foothills in fire-prone areas.
* Drought tolerant
* A coastal plant
* Low maintenance. Vigorous and will grow where little else wants to
grow
* Wind resistant
* Controls erosion by binding hillsides, stabilizing sandy dunes.
* Shallow-rooting so good for roof gardens
* Like most succulents, a useful "living mulch" groundcover.
* "Can be planted on flat, sandy ground, on loose sand dunes,
gravelly gardens, lime-rich and brackish soils as well as in containers,
rockeries, embankments and will cascade over terrace walls."
* Pretty yellow flowers and attractive rusty coloration even when
not in bloom (you can see its autumnal-toned beauty in many paintings of
coastal California scenes).
* Has medicinal uses and is a first-aid plant. "The leaf juice is
astringent and mildly antiseptic. It is mixed with water and swallowed to
treat diarrhea, dysentery and stomach cramps, and is used as a gargle to
relieve laryngitis, sore throat and mouth infections. Chewing a leaf tip and
swallowing the juice is enough to ease a sore throat. Leaf juice or a crushed
leaf is a famous soothing cure for blue-bottle stings - being a coastal
plant it is luckily often on hand in times of such emergencies. The leaf juice
is used as a soothing lotion for burns, bruises, scrapes, cuts, grazes and
sunburn, ringworm, eczema, dermatitis, sunburn, herpes, nappy rash,
thrush, cold sores, cracked lips, chafing, skin conditions and allergies... uses
and is a first-aid plant. "The leaf juice is astringent and mildly
antiseptic. It is mixed with water and swallow In the Eastern Cape of South africa
it is also used to treat diabetes and diptheria."
So what do you think? It is worth another look? Could this be a useful
plant for various garden and permaculture designs? Or should it be shunned
as uncontrollable?
Linda
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