[Sdpg] [Lapg] [Scpg] Interesting perspective about invasive species

Fri Apr 11 08:08:10 PDT 2008

Hi, Cory.  I agree with you.  It's definitely not a black and white thing.  There is so much that we don't know about nature.  Someone mentioned (I think Larry) once that it's just how plants propagate, spreading their seeds (and genes) anywhere they go.  So, are there really so called "native" vs. "non-native" (and therefore invasive plants)?  Again, these are labels that we, human invented.  

  I would think that there could be a lot of cross pollination and hybridization between the "native" and "invasive" plants.  As a consequence, may create progenies (diversity) that are more adaptive than either parent plants.  Isn't diversity the golden rule for sustainability to happen?

Cory Brennan <cory8570 at yahoo.com> wrote:
  I think the problem is more of a situation where permaculture principles are not applied, by either side.  I know of a number of situations with invasive species that were quite destructive and disruptive of ecosystems, destroying forests, waterways, etc.  It is usually not a black or white situation.  You have to go in and actually observe the ecosystem in question and find out what is happening and why.  Sometimes that isn't obvious.  For instance, beetle invasions that kill forests may not have happened if the forests had not been weakened in a number of ways first by man's intervention (clear cut, replanting of single species, incorrect fire management techniques, pollution, etc, etc).  Application of microbes can stop invasions as the system is strengthened - I personally don't know of any situation where artificial chemical solutions would be "necessary".  In other cases, like mustard, there are adaptability features that native species don't have. 

The review of this book makes it sound as extreme as those it is criticizing - I tend to distrust anything that makes things so black and white, from any side.  My view is that you have to observe and then do what will be least disruptive to the existing system, as per permaculture principles.  A great argument for natives is that we too often don't know their use and we really should bother to find out.  So often, they offer more nutrition and other uses than imported species.   California natives such as the oak are amazing plants and have so many great uses.   Cutting them down to bring in cattle and strip mining has caused very easily observed damage to ecosystems, including massive erosion problems.  

I think the argument of natives vs non native is a bit of a red herring. The real issue is whether we are observing the effects we create on our ecosystems and the implications of those effects, and taking responsiblity for that or not.  

By the way, someone mentioned on one of these lists plants that are compatible with live oak.  Is there a list?  I'm familiar with some, but not all. 

Cory

Marc Bailey <playtoe1 at yahoo.com> wrote:           var YAHOO = {'Shortcuts' : {}}; YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true; YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = ["sensitive_news_terms", "adult"]; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Interesting perspective about invasive species"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";   YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "playtoe1 at yahoo.com"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { "lw_1207900164_0": { "text": "http://jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm#Invasion%20Biology", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1140, "endchar": 1192, "start": 1140, "end": 1192, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "context": "other\x27s on this
 list would find interesting.  Happy composting, -Marc  http://jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm#Invasion%20Biology   We have all heard the breathless tales of the dangers", "metaData": { "linkHref": "http://jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm#Invasion%20Biology", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkRel": "nofollow", "linkTarget": "_blank" }  }, "lw_1207900164_1": { "text": "Florida", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1779, "endchar": 1785, "start": 1779, "end": 1785,   "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "PLACE", "predictionProbability": "0.959674", "weight": 0.35, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/place/destination", "shortcuts:/us/instance/place/us/state"], "category": ["PLACE"], "context": "invasive alien\x22 hydrilla supports the highest bird species diversity in Florida, and it supports higher fish species density and many times", "metaData": { "geoArea": "148514", "geoCountry": "United States", "geoIsoCountryCode": "US", "geoLocation": "(-81.541183, 27.975639)", "geoName": "Florida",
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      I've been thinking about plants labeled as invasive species and how many of them have extremely positive aspects.  Much time, effort, and money is spent fighting these plants, but perhaps our energies could be directed in more fruitful ways (pun intended).  

Coincidentally, a book that I had been reading called "Edible Forest Gardens" (Jacke & Toensmeier) recomends another book: "Invasion Biology: Critique of a Pseudoscience".   I went to the website and found the following synopsys of the book that I thought other's on this list would find interesting.

Happy composting,
-Marc

http://jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm#Invasion%20Biology

We have all heard the breathless tales of the dangers of "invasive alien species," but what does science say about them? Did you know that studies show that purple loosestrife does not affect species richness of native plants? Or that it supports higher bird densities than native vegetation? That saltcedar supports native birds and insects in high numbers and at high levels of diversity, including endangered species? That the "invasive alien" hydrilla supports the highest bird species diversity in Florida, and it supports higher fish species density and many times the fish biomass than natives? That the zebra mussel increased the catch of yellow perch five-fold, and that it improves water quality? That the so-called "killer algae" reduces pollution and helps native species? That in all cases, including even oceanic islands, introduced species have increased biodiversity?

Thoroughly researched, with full citations to scientific literature, this book will definitely change your view of introduced species. It will give you the facts you need to counter those promoting invader fears.

Chapters cover the origins of "natural" ecosystems and their changes over time, and detail the true underlying causes of "invasion" in the damage industrialism is wreaking on the planet. Case studies of many of the most feared "invaders" are presented, each case showing the distortions of the nativists, and the beneficial effects of the newcomer. The resiliency of ecosystems and the rapid ecological integration of newcomers is demonstrated. A chapter details the growing extremism of the nativist movement, and the harm caused as they clearcut, bulldoze, herbicide, and burn natural areas around the world in the name of purifying the landscape of the "foreign," even killing endangered species as "invaders."

A detailed analysis of the writings of these nativists reveals the psychopathologies that drive this reactionary movement. Numerous quotes are compared which demonstrate that the same fears that underlie xenophobia, racism, and fascism fuel the anti-invader movement. A chapter covers in detail the pseudoscientific nature of invasion biology-why the invasive species model cannot be scientific, and the poor practices that characterize the field. The impossibility of predicting invasions is covered, showing the "white list" concept to be useless as public policy.

The hidden influence of the herbicide industry is exposed. The regulatory industry and corporate interests are colluding in an effort to leverage the fictitious "invasion crisis" into a system of complete bureaucratic control of nature, and corporate privatization of the earth's biological diversity.

The final chapters concern the beneficial, diversifying effects of anthropogenic dispersal-the movement of species by man. These species increase biological diversity, benefit ecosystems, prevent extinctions, and act as an important force for healing the planet. Dispersal is a powerful driving force of evolution, and the book concludes by pointing out a new direction for conservation-the incorporation of dispersal as an essential strategy.

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