[Lapg] [Scpg] Interesting perspective about invasive species
camille cimino
camcim at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 11 08:55:31 PDT 2008
i am a HUGE fan and personal friend of david
thedoropolus and his book "invasion biology."
i highly recommend reading his book to get the FACTS
instead of buying in to the nativist hysteria.
according to permaculture principles there should be
ZERO judgement regarding plants, just the right plant
in the right spot.
i purposely plant invasive species all over, see who
is gonna win!
pampas grass rules!
PS she we get him to come down for another book tour?
he was here in LA 2 or so years ago.
--- Diana Liu <diana1127 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi, Cory. I agree with you. It's definitely not a
> black and white thing. There is so much that we
> don't know about nature. Someone mentioned (I think
> Larry) once that it's just how plants propagate,
> spreading their seeds (and genes) anywhere they go.
> So, are there really so called "native" vs.
> "non-native" (and therefore invasive plants)?
> Again, these are labels that we, human invented.
>
> I would think that there could be a lot of cross
> pollination and hybridization between the "native"
> and "invasive" plants. As a consequence, may create
> progenies (diversity) that are more adaptive than
> either parent plants. Isn't diversity the golden
> rule for sustainability to happen?
>
> Cory Brennan <cory8570 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think the problem is more of a situation where
> permaculture principles are not applied, by either
> side. I know of a number of situations with
> invasive species that were quite destructive and
> disruptive of ecosystems, destroying forests,
> waterways, etc. It is usually not a black or white
> situation. You have to go in and actually observe
> the ecosystem in question and find out what is
> happening and why. Sometimes that isn't obvious.
> For instance, beetle invasions that kill forests may
> not have happened if the forests had not been
> weakened in a number of ways first by man's
> intervention (clear cut, replanting of single
> species, incorrect fire management techniques,
> pollution, etc, etc). Application of microbes can
> stop invasions as the system is strengthened - I
> personally don't know of any situation where
> artificial chemical solutions would be "necessary".
> In other cases, like mustard, there are adaptability
> features that native species don't have.
>
> The review of this book makes it sound as extreme as
> those it is criticizing - I tend to distrust
> anything that makes things so black and white, from
> any side. My view is that you have to observe and
> then do what will be least disruptive to the
> existing system, as per permaculture principles. A
> great argument for natives is that we too often
> don't know their use and we really should bother to
> find out. So often, they offer more nutrition and
> other uses than imported species. California
> natives such as the oak are amazing plants and have
> so many great uses. Cutting them down to bring in
> cattle and strip mining has caused very easily
> observed damage to ecosystems, including massive
> erosion problems.
>
> I think the argument of natives vs non native is a
> bit of a red herring. The real issue is whether we
> are observing the effects we create on our
> ecosystems and the implications of those effects,
> and taking responsiblity for that or not.
>
> By the way, someone mentioned on one of these lists
> plants that are compatible with live oak. Is there
> a list? I'm familiar with some, but not all.
>
> Cory
>
> Marc Bailey <playtoe1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
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> on this
> list would find interesting. Happy composting,
> -Marc
>
http://jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm#Invasion%20Biology
> We have all heard the breathless tales of the
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> alien\x22 hydrilla supports the highest bird species
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> species density and many times", "metaData": {
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> I've been thinking about plants labeled as
> invasive species and how many of them have extremely
> positive aspects. Much time, effort, and money is
> spent fighting these plants, but perhaps our
> energies could be directed in more fruitful ways
> (pun intended).
>
> Coincidentally, a book that I had been reading
> called "Edible Forest Gardens" (Jacke & Toensmeier)
> recomends another book: "Invasion Biology: Critique
> of a Pseudoscience". I went to the website and
> found the following synopsys of the book that I
> thought other's on this list would find interesting.
>
> Happy composting,
> -Marc
>
>
http://jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm#Invasion%20Biology
>
> We have all heard the breathless tales of the
> dangers of "invasive alien species," but what does
> science say about them? Did you know that studies
> show that purple loosestrife does not affect species
> richness of native plants? Or that it supports
> higher bird densities than native vegetation? That
> saltcedar supports native birds and insects in high
> numbers and at high levels of diversity, including
> endangered species? That the "invasive alien"
> hydrilla supports the highest bird species diversity
> in Florida, and it supports higher fish species
> density and many times the fish biomass than
> natives? That the zebra mussel increased the catch
> of yellow perch five-fold, and that it improves
> water quality? That the so-called "killer algae"
> reduces pollution and helps native species? That in
> all cases, including even oceanic islands,
> introduced species have increased biodiversity?
>
> Thoroughly researched, with full citations to
> scientific literature, this book will definitely
> change your view of introduced species. It will give
> you the facts you need to counter those promoting
> invader fears.
>
> Chapters cover the origins of "natural" ecosystems
> and their changes over time, and detail the true
> underlying causes of "invasion" in the damage
> industrialism is wreaking on the planet. Case
> studies of many of the most feared "invaders" are
> presented, each case showing the distortions of the
> nativists, and the beneficial effects of the
> newcomer. The resiliency of ecosystems and the rapid
> ecological integration of newcomers is demonstrated.
> A chapter details the growing extremism of the
> nativist movement, and the harm caused as they
> clearcut, bulldoze, herbicide, and burn natural
> areas around the world in the name of purifying the
> landscape of the "foreign," even killing endangered
> species as "invaders."
>
> A detailed analysis of the writings of these
> nativists reveals the psychopathologies that drive
> this reactionary movement. Numerous quotes are
> compared which demonstrate that the same fears that
> underlie xenophobia, racism, and fascism fuel the
> anti-invader movement. A chapter covers in detail
> the pseudoscientific nature of invasion biology-why
> the invasive species model cannot be scientific, and
> the poor practices that characterize the field. The
> impossibility of predicting invasions is covered,
> showing the "white list" concept to be useless as
> public policy.
>
> The hidden influence of the herbicide industry is
> exposed. The regulatory industry and corporate
> interests are colluding in an effort to leverage the
> fictitious "invasion crisis" into a system of
> complete bureaucratic control of nature, and
> corporate privatization of the earth's biological
> diversity.
>
> The final chapters concern the beneficial,
> diversifying effects of anthropogenic dispersal-the
> movement of species by man. These species increase
> biological diversity, benefit ecosystems, prevent
> extinctions, and act as an important force for
> healing the planet. Dispersal is a powerful driving
> force of evolution, and the book concludes by
> pointing out a new direction for conservation-the
> incorporation of dispersal as an essential strategy.
>
>
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